How should Shatnerverse info be integrated into Kirks early history, academy and Faragut sections? A lot of stuff from Ashes of Eden and Captain's Blood contradicts My Brothers Keeper.

I have two ideas-- Isolate 23rd century Shatnerverse info using italics to indicate a contradictory timeline, or make a seperate page: James T. Kirk (Shatnerverse) ala the pages for mirror universe characters, but instead of redirecting with...

For information on the Mirror Universe Kirk, see James T. Kirk (mirror).

...it would say...

For information on the Kirk of William Shatner's novels, see James T. Kirk (Shatnerverse).

I think the first idea is easier and less confusing, but a seperate article would have its advantages as well.--Turtletrekker 09:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the main page with itlaicized noting of contradictory information is the way to go. While a "James T. Kirk (Shatnerverse)" page might have some merit in pulling everything together, that role would probably be better served as a subsection of the main "Shatnerverse" page. And just because that material is "Shatnerverse" doesn't necessarily make it more or less wrong than any other contradictory material from the 23rd century stories. "My Brother's Keeper" follows the Okuda's early best-guess synthesis for Kirk's early career, but since then some other ideas have come up that fit the canon as well or better. They haven't been used in a licensed work yet (unless in one of the Shatner books -- I haven't read them) so they haven't been noted here, but if one does, then it, "Brother's Keeper", and the Shatner stuff join the discrepency club. The main thing necessitating a "Shatnerverse" distinction is his 24th century return--Emperorkalan 12:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Dates and Annie 2 After the 2nd 5yr mission 3 ==Tarsus IV== 4 Password 5 Death, eh? 6 USS SALADIN

Dates and AnnieEdit

I've reversed two chnges by 213.249.240.99: The date of Lori Ciani's death (213.249.240.99 is apparently using a 2271 date for TMP, not 2273), and Annie Rand. In The Captain's Daughter Janice confides to Sulu that the reason she took a leave of absence was because she had a daughter -- one who died in infancy despite 23rd century medicine. Her comments about the father are cryptic: Kirk isn't named, but he's certainly implied. However, what is said could also apply to Sulu himself, or to a number of officers. It also seems out of character for Kirk, who otherwise seemed to draw the line at fraternizing with subordinates. The possibility should be mentioned, but it can't be said with certainty.--Emperorkalan 15:01, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, Kirk seemed awfuly friendly with Rand in Balance of Terror when the Romulan energy weapon closed in on the ship. He put his arms around her and held her, which seemed both un-professional and un-captainly. And if it was Kirk's transporter "duplicate" from The Enemy Within as sugggested by Rand's entry, well the "Duplicate" was in reality just as much James T. Kirk as the "Real" Kirk.--Turtletrekker 00:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll admit I'm going on memory for that part of the novel: If I had immediate access to the text I would have posted the relevant sections to simplify this debate (it also would have been useful if the other party(or parties)had bothered using the discussion pages so this could get hashed out sensibly). And the part about the "duplicate" Kirk rings a bell (or could it have been the Mirror Kirk before he was exposed?) -- I think when I first read that scene I thought Sulu thought he might have been the father, and I remember Kirk was implied but it wasn't clearly him. I'll try to dig out the book from whatever old box I have it in. (Indeed, fatherhood by the "evil" Kirk might help explain Annie's early death -- rather unusual genetics, there).--Emperorkalan 01:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Just to complicate matters, Ex Machina mentions Annie, as the product of an affair with a fellow crewmember. I'm still trying to locate my copy of The Captain's Daughter.--Emperorkalan 01:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Well...to centre on the words 'affair' and 'fellow crewmember', there's plenty of evidence, in novels and [sorry] fanfiction, to say Rand was in love with Kirk - as was Uhura. Could this interpretation of 'affair' be enough? And Kirk IS a fellow crewmember of Rand. Just two thoughts there.--Stripey 09:11, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

After the 2nd 5yr missionEdit

Why the change of command date from 2281 to 2277? Any particular source?--Emperorkalan 20:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

==Tarsus IV== Edit

The article states that Kirk's family moved to Tarsus IV. According to A Flag Full of Stars, he was just visiting relatives there. I don't believe Avenger mentions his family (but I may be mistaken). Does the fact that his family lived there come from "Though Hell Should Bar the Way" Enterprise Logs, or is it just conjecture? I always thought that he was just visiting, since "The Conscience of the King" didn't mention his family, and none of the other Kirk-related novels talk about them being on Tarsus. --TimPendragon 20:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

PasswordEdit

Kirk's password for Starfleet's database is given as "Voyager" (TOS novel: The Fearful Summons). Do with this what you will. – AT2Howell 03:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Death, eh?Edit

The Fearful Summons has him alive, saving Sulu in 2294. He was presumed dead in 2293. Should this be added as an alternate universe thing? – AT2Howell 22:54, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Does it take place before or after Generations? Or does it not take account of it at all? Does it actually give a 2294 date? or is it inferred some other way?--Emperorkalan 00:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Aside from the questions above, the way we usually handle something like this is to make the usual paragraph-or-so entry on those particular events, then make an editorial note below it (indented and in italics) noting its incompatibility with other sources and that it might be considered an alternate continuity.--Emperorkalan 00:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

A date of Spring 2294 is given, but Voyages of Imagination has moved the story to 2293 as it contradicts the Star Trek Chronology. Generally we follow the dates set forth in VOI, but I agree with Emperorkalan, and suggest you use the date 2293 instead of 2294 but make a brief note in italics that the original date given was 2294 but that it was adjusted to 2293. --The Doctor 06:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

USS SALADINEdit

Details on this have been tough to find, but according to DC Comic's TOS chronology, they had Kirk in command of the USS Saladin prior to his command of the Enterprise. It is referenced and shown at the beginning of DC's STAR TREK ANNUAL #1--"All Those Years Ago" (1985), and directly referenced in STAR TREK (Vol 1) #23--"Wolf At The Door!" (1986). Obviously, his command would have an end date of 2265, but I can't pinpoint exactly where it would have started, and where it would fall in the history you all have built. (I'm trying really hard to lay hands on a copy of DC's WHO'S WHO IN STAR TREK from the 80's...I'm sure it will be in there.) Anybody care to help me tackle this one? Freakshowmonkey 19:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)