Meyer v Meyer?Edit

There appear to be at least two distinct "Meyer"s that served in Starfleet. There is at least one from the TOS era from the Enterprise-A, and then at least one from the TNG era (Excalibur and Enterprise-E v Defiant). The one that served aboard the Enterprise-A could be the same as the ones aboard the Excalibur and Enterprise-E, as all of those appeared to be security officers that served with another security officer named Boyajian (and all were in stories by Peter David). Now, Meyer and Boyajian also made an appearance as security officers on DS9 in The Siege (also by David). His full tally of appearances needs to be catalogued.

The other appeared in a Malibu DS9 comic story, "Sole Asylum", and was a command-track officer in his lone comic appearance. -- sulfur 17:31, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I guess it depends on the context of his appearences, if he was described as Human for instance then the DS9 comic version probably isnt him, as he's very young looking. If he isn't then anything is possible. --8of5 17:33, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Neither were given species in the Peter David stories (that I've come across or recall), just both described as taller with dark hair. -- sulfur 17:37, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Well this guy has dark(ish) hair, and hair colour can change. Do any of his other appearences clash in terms of chronology, any cases of him being two cases at once? --8of5 17:40, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not 100% certain, but he appears everywhere Boyajian does, and they get assigned to Calhoun's Excalibur by 2373, two years after this story. The Siege is set in 2369, leaving that four-year gap available for this appearance. It's really the TOS-era one(s) that throw things off. -- sulfur 17:45, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

The TOS bit is a bit odd given his youthful appearance in the comic, but he does at least work quite nicely with him serving on DS9 in that gap. We know long life is perfectly doable, and especially if we don’t know his species. I think a background note describing how we don't really know whether or not they're the same, but that there's nothing that rules it out, will do the job. --8of5 20:09, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

That works for me. As noted above, I had the question about it, which means that someone else along the way will ask too. -- sulfur 20:18, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I've always assumed the TOS guards are separate characters, which makes the two sets' histories much more digestible. I've even taken steps to disambiguate Boyajian and Jerry Boyajian (the TOS one) in past links I've written. TNG Boyajian also served on the Grissom in between DS9/Defiant and the Excalibur, as per Once Burned. Not sure if Meyer was there that time. -- Captain MKB 20:33, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I would normally agree, but the two characters always appearing together seems too much of a coincidence for them to be different characters without us being specifically informed they are. --8of5 20:37, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Hrm, didn't even come across Jerry. That makes things a bit different now. It would be easier to separate them now, perhaps marking the 23rd century Meyer as "Meyer (23rd century)" perhaps? Also, every time I've come across Meyer or Boyajian, the other one has been there with him. -- sulfur 20:39, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree, Sulfur -- I think the century of difference would make unifying the articles a problem. Peter David included these characters as an in-joke, in that they are almost always together and always there when needed -- I don't think that joke necessarily means we should start creating unreal assumptions like 150 year old security lieutenants when sources are pretty clear that Humans who live that long aren't generally fit for security duty. -- Captain MKB 20:46, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, I think we should respect the in-joke. We assume they're human, but they could be any number of human-looking and much more long-lived species. There is a continuity between these two characters, across time and space, I think it would be shame to split them up without knowing for fact they are not the same people.

Have they ever appeared in any of Peter David’s comics, seeing if Meyer looks dramatically different or not could clear it up a bit. --8of5 20:51, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Apparently both appeared in the "Who Killed Captain Kirk" storyline, but not sure exactly what issue precisely. I'm skimming through them looking for the two of them now. -- sulfur 20:53, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Also, even if they are human, there are plenty of other possibilities, they could have been temporally displaced (it's not like Peter David doesn't have form with moving characters he likes through time hmm?). I think the fact they always come as a pair is just to compelling to ignore, I think it would be such a shame to not acknowledge how Peter David has played with these characters just to qualify them by some standard of realism that we don’t have enough evidence to support or deny; it seems such a lovely consistent element of his work. --8of5 20:58, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how it would take 'respect' away from the in-joke to use a rational treatment of these articles. Peter David named these characters after Humans he knows, so he was probably intending for Human characters, and I think it would make the situation even funnier to think that the pair reoccurs as different individuals in a different generation.

Sulfur, I think there was some talk identifying the characters from one of the Boyajian talk pages here on MB. -- Captain MKB 21:01, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Found 'em. Uploaded pics too, of both. -- sulfur 21:16, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, two sets of two people with the same name and doing the same job in the same organisation is no more rational than two people serving in Starfleet for over a century (we've seen half the main characters in TOS do it, why shouldn't a couple of minor ones?), especially in a universe that is full of time travel, advance medical treatments, and odd youth returning events. We do not have evidence either way, and one side cannot really be argued to be any more rational than the other in the context of the Star trek universe. Both rationales are stretching credibility!

And with no evidence to support them being four characters instead of two I think it would simply be nicer to keep them together, to explore this charming use of characters across two pages, rather them forcible split the joke across four pages when we don’t have the evidence to back it up. --8of5 21:24, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

They are separate characters. From Strike Zone:

The security team of Meyer and Boyajian, a team with ancestors going all the way back to the Enterprise Model NCC 1701-A, had been chosen to man the access ladder that was the only available means of getting up to the bridge.

Also written by Peter David. -- sulfur 21:22, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

In that case, split away :) --8of5 21:24, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Turns out that several printings of Strike Zone list him as "Meyers", but that was (according to Peter David) a typo that was later corrected. I accidentally created a redirect for "Meyers" because of that, but there are a couple of "Meyers" out there too. Ha. As such, I fixed the link on the Strike Zone article to point directly at the "Meyer" article, and split it off to Meyer (23rd century). -- sulfur 21:43, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Does honoring this joke stretch the credibility of your writing now, 8of5? -- Captain MKB 01:40, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

When I started this conversation years ago over at Boyajian, Turtletrekker said: "Actually, they have been stated as being different people-- when Strike Zone introduces M&B, there is a line about the the team having ancestors who served on the Enterprise-A." – AT2Howell 13:10, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

I should have remembered that. ;) -- Captain MKB 13:12, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Not quite sure what you're getting at Mike? And shame you weren't here to recall that AT2! --8of5 10:02, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

That's where I got the idea to look for the precise quote in Strike Zone, so, in a round-about way, he did assist us. :) -- sulfur 10:14, August 5, 2010 (UTC)