This page needs to be cleaned up. The last run-on sentance could be expanded into several paragraphs. Also, the episodes should be mentioned. We're not ignoring canon, we're just not focusing on it. --Chops 19:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I'm a bit surprised you still haven't registered, but anonymity is your right.--Chops 04:45, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

People are actually less anonymous if they are not logged in since the IP address is recorded in the page history. Angela (talk) 13:06, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

True, but many people's IP addresses change when they log off the Internet. While I can assume that at most only a few people have been adding all the mirror-universe information, there are at least a half-dozen different IPs.--Chops 22:55, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 References and Continuities 2 Citation 3 Point of Divergence 4 MA copy? 5 Clean up

References and Continuities Edit

Can we get some references on the "quantum iversion field" theory and the "quantum mirroring" stuff. It's sounds familiar, perhaps from Preserver, though I'm not sure.

And, considering the vast differences between portrayals of the MU down thorugh the years, shouldn't the article reflect the different continuities?

Aside from "Mirror, Mirror," which they all have in common, depictions of what became of MU-Kirk and MU-Spock after the episode vary, and cause at least three (if not more) different continuities.

The following cannot exist in the same continuity:

• Fragile Glass (Marvel Comics one-shot)
• The Mirror Universe Saga (DC Comics)
• Dark Mirror

Fragile Glass may tie-in to the DS9 episodes.

"Crossover" and the other DS9 episodes seem to also have spun off different continuities, since Dark Passions cannot coexist with Spectre and the other "Mirror-Shatnerverse" books. But how exactly does Dark Passions fit in?

"In a Mirror, Darkly" is probably in the same continuity as the DS9 eps, but not the Shatnerverse, since its depiction of First Contact is different from that in Preserver.

I think it's safe to assume that the DC Comics MU and the Dark Mirror MU have not been seen again.

Whether Glass Empires will require yet-another continuity is anyone's guess.

Any thoughts? --TimPendragon 04:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC) 04:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Continuity in the MU's not too terribly very screwed up. The canon sources work alright, and each non-canon source seems to take into account previous canon, but all the non-canon is contradictory with other NC works. I'd say the purest form of the MU incorporates canon, the DS9 relaunch, Three, and the new anthologies... and everything else I think is on its own.

Should the isolated works incorporate elements of the main timeline that fit in context? For example, Beverly Crusher (mirror) has a nice solidified flow between Dark Mirror and Spectre, although other information in both sources negates that they could be in the same continuity. Is that ok? Or should isolated works be treated as if nothing in any other source has anything at all to do with them? --DataNoh 15:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Is Three supposed to exist in the "primary continuity? The Sorrows of Empire has Spock killing Kirk shortly after the return of the landing parties. Yet I recall a passage in Three where Kirk was described as having been killed in a battle at Mutara--Robert Treat 05:27, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Citation Edit

As interesting and informative as this page is, it is almost completely unsourced and often seems to be someone’s interpretation of how the mirror universe might function in physics. And even if it could be properly sourced it might be more manageable if it were split up into few pages, history of the mirror universe, means of entering the mirror universe, etc. -- 8of5 14:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Finally figured out where the technical information in this article came from! Through a Glass, Darkly is a digital sourcebook, licensed by Paramount, for the mirror universe "expansion" of the Decipher Star Trek RPG. While this is a credible source, every bit of this article from "The Continuum" all the way down (excluding the citations at the bottom) is plagiarized directly from this sourcebook. If somebody wants to paraphrase all that material and give it that citation, that'd be great. I don't think my mind can handle that much technical jargon. --DataNoh 14:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

If this is all taken directly from the book then I think really it has to go, that's got to be a non-no right? -- 8of5 03:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Definitely against MB policy... what's the rule on excerpting? I'm loathe to get rid of the info entirely, since it's from a somewhat unknown yet relevant source, but I really can't contemplate trying to rewrite it all. For now, I'm going to at least note that it is straight from that book. -- DataNoh 14:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Point of DivergenceEdit

Does anybody know if In a Mirror, Darkly actually says for a fact that the Vulcan landing is the point of divergence for the MU, or if it is just the earliest canon reference to a different thing happening? Through a Glass, Darkly (RPG) states that there is no "point of divergence," but that it is just parallel, which I like for simplicity's sake, since different sources list dozens of isolated pre-Kirk possible divergences. --DataNoh 15:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it doesn't say that, and Archer's line that the Empire had been around "for centuries" would tend to suggest the differences go back at least to the mid-20th century. Phlox also notes that, except for Shakespeare, there are differences in the literature of the the mirror (our) universe, so that probably means there were differences at least back to the 17th century. I think the Mirror Universe is a lot like the Federation economic system: the less you try to explain it, the better. --Seventy 15:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

"In a Mirror, Darkly's" opening credits show 20th century troops marching under a Terran flag, and a Terran Empire first moon landing, presumably some time before the Cochrane scenario. No "point of divergence" on record there -- its just always been a "different" version of things as far back as canon Trek has ever shown. -- Captain MKB 14:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

MA copy? Edit

Is the recent rather messy addition a copy from Memory Alpha? It seems to have much the same but also has bits we cover rammed into in places. If so, unless/until someone wants to rewrite it do we remove the whole thing or just try and figure out what is and isn't copied? -- 8of5 16:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I've attempted to fix it a bit, I didn't completely rewrite it as the mirror universe episodes and novels aren’t ones I'm hugely familiar with. What was there was a mixture of the article taken from MA with random bits of non-canon stuff copied from other parts of this site without any thought on the relevance of certain details in the complete history of the mirror universe or any thought on the flow of the article. However as it stands the article is very canon orientated, it could really do with the history established in the new MU novels, which I've yet to read, so anyone? --8of5 05:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Clean up Edit

Ok well i think this page needs a big clean up.

1) History I think we should split the history into 5 different parts with their own respective pages and a brief blurb on here.

Shows

Primary continuity

Shatnerverse

Comics

Other Novels

2) Divergence

Attempt to isolate each initial divergence in each mirror universe.

Effects of that divergence and how it changed the mirror universe and the characters in it.

How each divergence is referenced in the novels and their effects there.

The thing i see with the Mirror universe is that with each series they bring out it offers a whole new unique rich history that we can expand upon here. The Shatnerverse its self was able to offer an explanation of its own divergence and link it to the TOS and DS9 Episodes.

-- Admiral Yates 14:27, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that separating things outside of our 'in-universe' POV is a good idea. I'd prefer to name the sections more intuitively while maintaining our POV. -- Captain MKB 15:11, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

I think the page needs expanding more than tidying, but the expandsion itself requires a tidy structure to incorporate the mess of contradictory stories. It doesn't make sense to me to push "divergence" off into a later section of the page, surely that should just be the earliest history section. What would be a useful section is describing the characteristsic of the mirror universe.

Because the modern prose continutity is by far the most developed, and incorporate all the canon stories into its continutiy (unlike many of the earlier MU stories, most notably Dark Mirror of course) I would suggest we assume that as our main base. For most eras this isn't too big an issue as the discontinuityies are few and more minor so can be listed as an indented background note describing the discontinuties as they occur. The 24th century is much problematic due to the number of diverging mirror unievrse there, and the fact many of those divergences are more developed. So I would suggest a page structure like this:

• Overview - detailing the mirror universe, any key characteristics and such
  • Access - describing the different ways the mirror universe can be accessed
• History
  • Early History
  • 22nd century
  • 23rd century
  • 24th century
    • Memory Omega continuity (modern prose continuity)
    • Tiberius continuity (aka Shatnerverse)
    • <In-universe name for Dark Passions> continuity
    • Continued Terran Empire continuity
• Appendices
  • Continuity - explaining all the above mess! --8of5 16:43, April 9, 2010 (UTC)