---

Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

---

This article talks about a Borg enhanced internal anti-personnel defense system. Did it break? Worf was doing his "sneaky warrior" routine and it still stabbed him. 25 years later, Kirk is bounding around like a kid on a jungle gym and nothing happens. I'm just asking if the references covered that at all... – AT2Howell 13:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

There was a mention in Nero issue one of the ship's ability to "heal" itself, and also of severe damage to the ship. So, yes, we've confirmed it could either have remained broken, or could have been fixed. We'll have to wait for the next few issues to come out before we know, so there's no real point to asking this here and now.

If you're so interested, why not read the comic, and ease up on our talk pages? Please. -- Captain MKB 14:05, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Also a note on what you keep trying to edit into the article AT2. We do not know which parts of the Narada technology are "Borg enhanced" and which bits are Romulan designs, it used elements of both, so as well as being annoying nitpicking it could also be inaccurate for you to keep jamming "Borg enhanced" in a descriptor for every ability the Narada has. It has advanced technology, at least some of which was derived from Borg technology.

And will you cut it out with the references to slow torpedoes. Your analysis is based on your subjectivity, and as in many cases with technology in Trek and fiction in general the weapons move as fast as the narrative and aesthetics of the film dictate. Which makes it more or less impossible for us to rate their speed with no direct basis for comparison. --8of5 03:02, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Any offensive weapon that moves so slow that it can be shot in mid-flight by ancient phaser systems is damn slow. If only the 24th century Klingons had 23rd century phasers, so much destruction could have been avoided! But, in the interest of "galactic peace", I am willing to compromise. – AT2Howell 13:14, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

So to begin the compromise about your continued confusion between your own opinions and facts, I've removed your latest additions to the article, Please stop adding opinionated text and speculation to articles. This is your warning.

The 24th century Klingons were also defeated before the Narada's battle with the Enterprise-E, the Kelvin and the 23rd century Klingongs. it's possible multiple occurrences of battle damage lowered the ship's offensive capabilities. So your supposed facts are not really solid facts. Sorry. -- Captain MKB 13:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Hey, that was nowhere in the article. That is here, on the comment page. 8of5 left some comments and made some edits. I read said comments, and then made my own edits. My new edits reflected the statements made by 8of5. What, is he the god of Memory Beta now? He can edit but I can't? I only included information that was actualy in the movie. Hence terms like "relatively". Get off the high horse for a minute and realize that we all can contribute, and that he doesn't have the final edit. – AT2Howell 13:34, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Quick! Someone alert 8of5! Some infidel dared to edit 'his' page! – AT2Howell 13:40, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

AT2Howell, there really is no cause for this vandalism of the article. 8of5 does not own this article -- but no one on this site will allow you to vandalize it. Above, 8of5 asks you to stop adding references with your opinions of the weapon effectiveness, whether or not you use weasel words like "relatively" -- and then you went against the discussion by adding text with your unproven opinion of Enterprise phaser power. The text was removed and this is your last warning on this disruption. -- 13:56, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

What is not proven? Did the Enterprise's phasers nullify the Narada's offensive capabilities? Yes. How? Well, the phasers could track faster than the missles could fly. So those missiles were slow? Relatively speaking, yes. About that red matter, wasn't Spock worried he didn't have enough? Yes, he was, but he used it, causing a time traveling black hole situation. So why did he still have a lot of it left? Maybe he was wrong. So you're saying Spock was THAT wrong in his calculations? Eh, yes. Wow, okay, that's a first. Eh, it happens. So, this red matter causes time travel black holes, right? Yeah, pretty much. So Vulcan is back in time somewhere? Yeah, I guess. And the Narada was being sucked further back in time? Eh, until she started breaking up, yeah. – AT2Howell 14:02, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

See how I have to work both sides of the dialogue just to have an intelligent conversation about this? Now that the FACTS have established a logic pattern, lets put them in the article and move on. – AT2Howell 14:04, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

No, red matter was designed to cause regular, non-time-traveling, black holes. The fact that one of them became a rift in time was never said to be anything but an accident. There's no way you can use the fact to prove that all red matter phenomena cause time travel. It's just not founded with any PROOF.

As to the phasers and the missiles, one was defeated by the other on one occasion, but on other occasions, it went another way and phasers of other ships alternately succeeded and failed to defeat the missiles. sounds like this could have more to do with the skill of the tacticians rather the quality of the weapons. So, another supposed "fact" that can't be proven. After all, a machine gun is only effective if you can point it in the right direction, AT2Howell. Most likely Hikaru Sulu and George Kirk succeeded where others failed because they were better shots, or trusted their instincts in choosing their barrage patterns. Can you cite a scene or page number that suggests the speed was inherent in the weapons or are you just stating your opinion that the weapons were completely automated?

Well? Cite a scene? a page number? or will your next response be more weaselly "i know this to be fact" chest-pounding when you really can't cite any of this. can we get any intelligent conversation out of you? -- Captain MKB 14:15, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Unless those missiles were going even slower than I give them credit for, no one was "manning the machine guns", as you put it. Such and intercept system would function along the same lines as the Phalanx weapons system (CIWS) currently deployed in missile defense by the Navy and mortar defense by the Army. Sensor data is interpreted by a computer system which then uses rapid fire vulcan cannons to spit out more rounds than you would ever care to count. The thing sounds like a chainsaw. Any rate, the intercept ability would be entirely hinged on sensor interpretation and computer processing speeds. The Enterprise was newer than the other ships. She had better CIWS than the older ships. So good, that it made the missiles too slow to be effective, or 'neutralizing' the enemy's offensive capability. Duh, everyone knows this. – AT2Howell 14:22, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

The reason you might have a problem getting intelligent conversation here is your rotten attitude. I've still seen nothing in this discussion justifying the changes you were trying to make to the article. -- Captain MKB 14:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

So, you're cool with the article mentioning that the Narada's offensive systems were neutralized by the Enterprise? We have evidence, you have none to the contrary. Let's go with it! – AT2Howell 16:41, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

The article does already describe the Enterprise being able to pick of the Narada's missiles...

And while such speculation can of course not be added to the article consider this: Phasers and missiles are different technologies. Have you thought about the possibility that phasers by their very nature, no matter their era of origin, are a faster weapon than a torpedo? (what with them basically being a fancy laser rather than a chemically or magnetically propelled object) So no matter how advanced the Narada's weapons may or may-not be, no matter what state their arsenal is in after successive battles and travelling through a black hole, maybe it is simply a fundamental advantage that phaser technology has, maybe a well targeted phaser of any era could pick off those or any other missiles... --8of5 18:10, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Then, if syntax is the only difference, we can use my version, rather than yours. It was just as accurate. See, compromise is fun. – AT2Howell 18:14, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

I expanded the Vulcan and Earth sections when I made my edits, to a point where they were largely re-written to incorporate the extra information. It's got nothing to do with favoured authorship. If you look at the edit history I left several edits you made to the page completely unaltered. See, compromise is fun. --8of5 20:18, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Too busy to read the comics, so thankfully 8of5 is keeping up. Nice to see that the anti-personnel system was still working after the Romulans' escape. Please don't hesitate to report how that system broke between that escape and the film. Inquiring minds want to know. – AT2Howell 17:04, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Actually it was a different system: The one that got Worf was a big tentacle sort of thing, this time the Narada electrocuted people :P --8of5 17:10, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Hey AT2Howell, if you want to troll somewhere, express outrage about plot points you personally don't agree with and otherwise nag people to read comics to you, i suggest you try http://trekbbs.com -- Captain MKB 17:38, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

What? 8of5 made a good point AND told me something I didn't know. Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? – AT2Howell 17:43, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

There's a gray area in the middle, but this page isn't much about "answering your questions" or "making points" -- it's supposed to be about "suggesting changes to the article". -- Captain MKB 17:51, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes. But my questions are most likely the same as others who will be viewing this article. That electrocution bit might be a good adition to the article. – AT2Howell 18:03, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Don't get madEdit

One little question. This article says the Kelvin was disabled. Does it give any details? I assume the warp drive was damaged and that is why they evacuated the ship rather than warping out? Haven't read it myself (yet) but details seem to be lacking in this area. – AT2Howell 01:39, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Make that two questions: In the movie it looks like Kirk was the only one who didn't evacuate the ship. Does this reflect the novelization? – AT2Howell 01:40, December 1, 2009 (UTC)