Not to be an idiot, but why are all of the Nimitz-class vessels listed? Were they all mentioned somewhere?--Long Live the United Earth 17:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

AT2Howell apparently forgot a good deal of our contribution guidelines yesterday -- just in case this is an example of that, I've gone ahead and erased his edit. If he wants to attest to a source, Memory beta would be glad to hear that. -- Captain MKB 17:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Once again, there were already a few scattered "red" links that had no reference. Since no one felt it was nessesary to remove them, I simply added other logical "red" links. If they were a problem, someone else would have removed them long ago. What are the references on Ted and the Geedub? – AT2Howell 05:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Also, what is up with the order? USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) is a nuclear boat, the Brig Enterprise went the way of the dinosaurs long ago, USS Enterprise (CV-6) was around for WWII and Korea, USS Enterprise (CVN-65) is still puttering around in the second fleet, USS Forrestal (CV-59) was decomed long ago and I think is off the coast of Texas, the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) I believe is in fifth fleet currently, and the USS George Washington (CVN-73) just transfered out to the seventh fleet. Why are they in this order? I fixed the order, giving it some sense of logic. What do you have against logical order? – AT2Howell 05:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

And to continue this rant, why the flag? And why that flag? The navy's been around since October of 1776, and never have you seen that flag flying on a US ship on Star Trek. So I ask again, why that flag? What is your reference? I'm watching Star Trek IV tommorow just to see what ensign is flying on the Ranger. – AT2Howell 06:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

reorder the list if you need to, then -- that's not a problem at all...

AT2Howell -- all of the existing red links can track back to a novel source -- just click on any red link and then click on "what links here" and it will usually show you a VALID source that links to it.

I find it surprising that you've forgotten that you're not supposed to add random red links that have no basis in Star Trek -- especially since another admin raised the possibility for banning you for ignoring such rules. -- Captain MKB 14:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Forstal has no links to it. – AT2Howell 15:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Ike has no links to it. – AT2Howell 15:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Ted does have a link. – AT2Howell 15:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

And so does the GeeDub. So now the challenge is to determine which evil person put those two unsupported liks in here! Let's get him guys! – AT2Howell 16:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Identify your reference for that flag. In what episode did it appear on the ensign of a United States Navy vessel? If you have no reference, you must replace it with an acceptable image. – AT2Howell 15:52, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and found references to all those unreferenced ships -- they were all mentioned in "Ghost Ship". Thanks for putting the list in order, I really appreciate you taking that effort to make a positive change to the article based on the rationale you provided for not having the ships in random order. Thanks again. -- Captain MKB 17:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The 52-star flag was established as the symbol of the United States in TNG episode: "The Royale" and the image we use was published as the symbol of the United States in ST reference: Star Trek Encyclopedia. No other ship articles here use ship-specific ensigns, all ship articles here use general logos of their governmental powers, this flag fits that description. -- Captain MKB

I know the episode, but every on screen reference to the US navy has had ships which fly the 50 star ensign. According to your own rules, unless there was a specific trek reference to the united states navy flying the 53 star flag, then you cannot use it on this page. Trek has never aknowleged the existance of the us navy past the fifty states. Who knows if there even was a US navy when the country had 53 states. If it's not directly referenced, it does not exist. This is the rule for the solar system, then this is the rule for this flag. Common sense does not factor in. There must be a direct reference. – AT2Howell 21:24, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The direct reference is that the 52-star flag is the last knownsymbol of the country that sailed those ships. This is in keeping with other insignia used on this site.

We use the TNG Federation flag even for TOS ships that existed before that particular cosmetic change had been made for the Federation. Notice that the UFP emblem is used on the article for many starships even though the emblem didn't appear in the same episodes as some of those starships -- even though the emblem changed over the years, its the one we used because it is the most up-to-date (and also the most common)...

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you are suggesting (What is "common sense does not factor in" supposed to mean? -- I really can't understand what you're trying to say). There might be some Trek references for 48 star, 13 star and 50 star flags -- but have you brought any of these to our table? No -- you've provided no citations that prove these flags might be valid for this site, you're basically just making noise about the way things are here without being clear about why and how they should change. -- Captain MKB 21:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

My "common sense" point is simple. Obviously, the US navy most likely continued to exist so long as the united states did. But trek provides no proof of this. Without proof of the navy's existence under a 52 star flag, the rules of the wiki say that this cannot be assumed. And yes, I'm mostly just rattling my cage. Do what you will. – AT2Howell 21:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

So the obvious resolution here would be for other MB users to chime in and say they agree with me that it really doesn't matter how many stars are on our flag as long as it is a flag from a Star Trek publication and that it is the flag of the country for the article we are using it on. -- Captain MKB 21:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Chime, I think AT2 actually has a point here. I personally wouldn't even notice the difference, but if the ships are described in the 20th century I'm sure there must be a Trek source for the 20th century version of the flag which would be a more appropriately contemporaneous emblem for the ships. --8of5 23:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the ships should have a more contemporary flag. Including 19th century flags for any ships from that period (assuming it's available).--Long Live the United Earth 23:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)